If you have been following Phillip Phillips’s career for a while, you know he is intensely private, humble, funny, and the embodiment of determination. But fans of his music know that underneath his jovial and relaxed demeanour lies an artist of a deep and quiet sensitivity who is not afraid to explore the more painful and confounding aspects of life, ambition, love and relationships.
Phillip Phillips’s fans also know that from day one, he has fought to remain untouched by the not-always-clear waters of the music industry, proving his strong beliefs in his artistic vision and integrity. Fiercely hard-working, Phillip released three albums from 2012 to 2018 and toured non-stop for years. He did this despite fighting a complex legal battle with his record label for most of those years. Then, the pandemic came and put a halt to most musicians and performers’s careers around the world, including Phillip.
Drift Back, released in June 2023, is his first album in five years. It’s a collection of 10 songs that feel like an exploration of love through a prism, each evoking a different stage of love, from early love to mature love to love that is ending.
As he has done almost every summer since coming onto the scene in 2012, Phillip Phillips is touring across the US, performing songs from Drift Back and his extensive catalogue of originals and beloved covers.
I had the pleasure of catching up with Phillip last month to talk about Drift Back and his summer tour. During our conversation, Phillip spoke candidly about the challenges of being a musician dad and balancing artistic and musical goals with more practical needs. For instance, one of Phillip’s new priorities is making sure he can go home regularly while touring to spend time with his son, 4-year-old Patch, and his wife Hannah, who, after nearly a decade of touring with Phillip, has become a dedicated mental health professional.
Phillip was incredibly generous and warm as he talked about his creative mindset, the evolution of his writing process, and his relationship with time. He thinks about this subject often, and when he looks back at the past, he regrets not taking more time to enjoy the ride of being a young, successful musician. But as he embarks on a new career phase, with a wealth of storytelling still waiting to be told, he may now be taking a more scenic route.
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PhillPhillcom: You have a tour coming up. The last time we spoke briefly in 2022, you mentioned that you had changed how you toured and organized your tours, playing shows on the weekends and spending time at home during the week. Is this the case for this tour as well?
Phillip: For this year, it’s kind of like a tour. Mostly, I call them just one-off shows, but sometimes you advertise them as a tour just because it sounds better. But I really call these one-offs, even if there are several in a row. But, yeah, I still want to keep touring like that. When it’s anywhere on the East Coast or so, I’ll try to do the weekend, like Thursday through Saturday or Sunday, and then be home Monday through Wednesday. But when you start hitting the West Coast, you have to be gone for two or three weeks. That’s what I had to do last year, so that gets tough. I think more so on Patch than Hannah. She’s used to it, but it’s still tough for her as well. But it gets a little harder on him, so I don’t like to be gone this much if I don’t have to. So, I’ll always try to figure out how much I can be gone and how much I want to be home. I love being home, so trying to figure it out is a constant thing.
PhillPhillcom: Yes, that’s the reality of any parent, and, of course, when you are married as well. I completely understand.
Phillip: Yeah. Hannah toured with me for eight or nine years, so she understands it all, but [that] doesn’t make it any easier. But [Patch] is four, and he loves his daddy. He loves playing and fighting, as he says, and hitting tennis and pickleball. So, he gets a little sad when I’m gone for many days and he doesn’t get to do that.
PhillPhillcom: And when you are gone, Hannah is a single parent.
Phillip: Exactly. She’s been living the single mom life, especially for the last couple of years. So, I can’t thank her enough for everything she does so I can [pursue] my dream. And I’m just really happy for her for chasing her dream, too, and figuring all that out. You have got to make it teamwork.
PhillPhillcom: That’s right, it’s teamwork. Thank you for sharing what a touring musician with a young family looks like; I appreciate it. So, you mentioned these upcoming shows are more like one-off shows.
Phillip: Yes, it’s not like a proper tour [where] you go into these cities, and you get a poster and new merch. I prefer how it’s going this year, doing these shows like, let’s do a couple of shows this weekend, and then you’re home for a week or two [and then have another show the following weekend]. But these past few weeks have just been radio visits, so it’s been a lot of travel; almost every day, getting on a plane and going to the city. But it’s fun. It’s a different kind of show I’m doing. I do four or five songs, and it’s nice and easy for just a few [contest] winners. But the travelling [part] is not fun.
Phillip: Yeah, it’s more or less the same band. I try to keep it the same as much as possible. The drummer situation fluctuates a little bit, but I usually try to keep it to guys who have played with me. So it’s all guys who know the music, and I’ve had one lady, Mee Eun Kim, who plays with the Trans-Siberian orchestra. She hasn’t played with me in a while, but she’s done a lot of shows. She’s just incredible. So that’s why I say mostly guys that have been playing with me (laughs). But you build those relationships through word of mouth and other musicians, and you either bond or don’t.
PhillPhillcom: You have been doing this, touring, since 2012. Have you changed the way you prepare for the shows in terms of how you conceptualize your show, how you write your set list, or what you want to get across in each show? Has the way you prepare changed or evolved in any way?
Phillip: The past couple of years have been a little hard because the shows have mostly been fall tours. So it’s been hard because leading up to the tours, I’m really busy, so I don’t get to have as much time to change certain things with certain songs that I’d like to, things I’ve discussed with the band because I want to change some of these [song arrangements]. Because a lot of it is mostly me coming up with jams, and then I’ll show the band, and then sometimes they’ll add their flavour to it, and then it evolves over the course of playing it a lot. But mostly in the past couple of years, it’s been a little bit hard to hone in on that because life is busy with a kid. But we still have fun with it and keep it different; we still add small things here and there that we notice, but I don’t think most crowds pay attention to those details like we do. So, there are other things I would like to get tighter on as far as changing certain things, and touring is preparing for that. I also have a lot of music now, and it makes it a little hard for the band to learn all that music. They know many of these songs, but sometimes there are one to two people who are [new to the band], so it makes it hard to change the set so much. So I try to get them to learn as much music as possible so I can keep it different every night. Hopefully, we’ll have some time in a rehearsal room next time we tour to do more things I’d like.
PhillPhillcom: That’s very cool. I completely understand that life is different now. Balancing being an artist and being a parent, I think that’s one of the hardest things to do for anybody.
Phillip: Yes, Having a kid is the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do in my life. Especially a strong-willed kid (laughs). But he’s awesome and it’s just that my priorities are a little different. I love playing music, but for most artists, including myself, you make less money touring right now. And since COVID, it’s just so expensive. So, why do I want to spend X amount of money on a tour when I won’t make any money [and be away from my family]? It hasn’t made sense for me, so I really like these one-off shows. Touring, in my mind, has changed a little bit. I’m trying to figure that out how much touring I want to do in the future. [The tours] these past couple of years weren’t too heavy compared to other artists, but [they were] still pretty lengthy, so I’m trying to figure that all out.
PhillPhillcom: Let’s talk about Drift Back. Of your four albums, this is the most consistent one in terms of themes and sound; your other albums are very eclectic in terms of song styles.
Phillip: For sure.
PhillPhillcom: Lyrically, there is a strong theme of relationships being tested, of looking back at brighter times in a relationship and wondering if the relationship will survive. You also write a lot about the concept of time, and there’s even a song called “Long Time.” When you were writing this album, was exploring that theme something you did consciously or was it more that you realized, “Whoa, I’m writing a lot of songs on this theme; let’s put them all together.” How was that?
Phillip: No, I never write an album consciously; I just try to write a good song. Whatever that’s going to be about, I don’t know until I’m writing it and getting it going. But this one is definitely the most straightforward album I’ve had as far as meaning, and it’s the most vulnerable album I’ve probably made without it being super tricky. Because sometimes I don’t like to be so upfront about what a song might be [about], I [try to] make it a little more universal, and I felt I made this one a lot more personal. All of my songs are somewhat personal or very personal, but every song has a very particular meaning: It’s about relationships; what do I want? How long do I want to be in a relationship that’s causing me some struggles? I’m very private about my life, and there are relationships that I’ve had, especially since everything happened for me professionally. It’s tough. People that you love might say certain things to you that you don’t expect, and dealing with that. Or you have somebody else who’s loved you for just as long and is trying to help you through that. I also have a relationship with a kid now and the whole dynamic changes. So, throughout the album, there are [songs about] relationships with my family and watching some people close to me go through some relationships, but [the songs] end up tying in back towards me somehow. When I’m writing the song, I don’t realize it’s about me. I thought it was about them, but it’s actually about me, and I don’t realize it until later. It’s always interesting when that happens.
PhillPhillcom: But that’s the beauty of writing. I don’t write music, obviously, but writing is usually how I understand things; I can only understand something when I start writing it, so I see what you mean.
Phillip: I wrote a song, and I’m working on it. I don’t have a chorus yet, but I have an idea for it. I started messing around with a different chorus and don’t know where it’s going yet. But the verses, I’ll just start crying [while writing them]. I don’t know if I’ve ever written a song that makes me cry when I’m writing it. So I have to stop playing it and do something else. When you write, it’s like, “Oh, shoot, now I’m dealing with it,” and this makes you feel it’s real.
PhillPhillcom: You talk a lot about time and looking back. Do you think about time a lot?
Phillip: Yeah, I look back a lot on my life, and it could go back however far you want it to go. Even in my career, there are things I wish I would have done differently or things I wish could have happened differently. I wish I would have enjoyed more things in my career. I was always, “I gotta do this next thing so I can stay on top of it,” but I don’t feel like I slowed down enough to really enjoy what I had at that time. And, looking back, even with family, I had such a great childhood. And then, as you get older, you realize your parents aren’t superheroes. And then you also realize they’re only trying their best, but sometimes it’s hard to see. It could get deep real quick. Even with my and Hannah’s relationship, when you first start, you just think about all those things: “Dang, look at where we are right now; this is just bizarre.” And as you get older and you have a kid, I just want to make sure I do the best for Patch, you know? So, yeah, as you get older, you get just so much more stressed.
PhillPhillcom: I completely understand what you’re saying because there’s a shock when you turn 30 and then 40; you cannot believe you are this age. And the things that you imagine you will be doing at that age, it turns out that everybody is just trying their best to appear that they know what they’re doing. But truly, nobody does.
Phillip: That’s right.
PhillPhillcom: We talked about the themes you gravitated to in Drift Back, but I also wanted to ask you about songwriting. I feel that your songwriting has become more economical and straightforward. The one thing I love about your music is that there is some intricacy to it. I feel I could see your ambition when you were writing a song, and you wanted to make it really interesting, really different, and I appreciate that a lot. But I see the songs calming down in a way, and I love it. It feels like in these songs, it’s more about the details.
Phillip: Yeah, for sure. It’s happening even more in these newer songs I’m working on. I’m kind of tired of the trick; I don’t feel like there’s any dancing around it too much right now. So, you’re definitely right. This last album is much more straightforward, and even more so for these songs [that I’m working on now]. So, I’m liking it, and it’s making me mentally feel better. You’re not wrong. Maybe you can write my songs (laughs).
PhillPhillcom: No, not at all! Haha I ask this because I’m curious if you’re doing this consciously. For example, nowadays, when I write, I try to be brief and have a word limit. I guess that’s the kind of evolution that many writers or artists go through; they try to be even more to the point. But is this something that you’re doing consciously, or is it just happening naturally?
Phillip: I think it is conscious or a little bit of both. It’s more to be honest with myself and not write a song just to try and make it fit for radio or anything like that. There’s no time limit or [somebod] saying, “Hey, you have to finish the song so we can get it out.” Sometimes, there’s a little bit of that just because now it’s all streaming, and you want to keep some people interested. But even that, [for me is] I’ll finish the song when it’s right. I have one song that’s almost finished out of all these other ideas I’m trying to work on. It just has to be tightened up a little bit. I wrote this chorus and verse at home pretty fast, and then I kind of struggled writing the second verse, and then I went to Nashville, and I showed Todd (Producer and songwriter Todd Clark) what I was working on, and he said, “You’re not just at home playing pickleball, huh?” (laughs).
PhillPhillcom: Has it happened that you have songs that you say, “I love this song, but this is not right for this album or this moment,” and then you pick them up and use them later or tweak them when they feel right?
Phillip: I’m sure it might have happened a little bit in the past, but it’s definitely more so now. Lyrically, I’m in a place where I’m being a little more straightforward, and it feels right. There are a couple of songs that feel a little personal. So, we’ll see if I release those or not (laughs).
PhillPhillcom: I understand. It has to feel right, and you need to protect yourself as a person.
Phillip: And protect the other people that I love, whether you go through struggles with them or not. So, I’ll hopefully figure it out at some point and see if I can release them.
PhillPhillcom: You went from being with a big record label (19 Entertainment) to becoming an independent musician. Could you share a bit about how that happened and how it feels to go through that change?
Phillip: Yes. It’s nice to have a big label. They have bigger arms and a lot more power and money. So, that’s nice. But I’m in a more unique situation than I think many artists are because of how my contract was. I went through that lawsuit for two or three years, which was not fun. That definitely can somewhat hurt your career because you can’t put new music out, but we figured it out. And then, I think Interscope going their separate ways was more [a situation where it was] harder for them to hang on to me with what was attached to it. So, I’ve nothing against them; they were great. But the thought of working independently was scary, for sure. I went through two managements that had no idea how to move forward with that with me. That made it even a little scary. Finally, I’m with a new management now that was not afraid to take on the idea and take on that challenge. I’ve released new music with them, and they’ve been awesome. So it’s been really good because I think, partially, they’re figuring it out a little bit too. I have a great business management team that I love dearly, and a great lawyer and a great agent. I was just always missing that manager who could help get my career going in the right direction. I feel I’m in a good spot now, and it’s been great releasing this music. And, plus, when you own your masters, that’s a huge deal. You know, when TikTok took down all the music from a lot of artists, they didn’t take down mine; that was nice. But I’ve been very fortunate, and people have still stuck around with me, and hopefully, that can only go up.
PhillPhillcom: That’s great. Owning your master’s is amazing. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me and for being so kind and honest. I appreciate it very much.
Drift Back is available wherever you listen to music. To see Phillip’s upcoming tour dates, please visit his official site.
This conversation was edited and condensed for clarity.